SCPA & SBSA Discussion Board

Great posts, thanks for sharing your feelings and thoughts. I really like the brochure idea Bo, seems like a great thing to put together for the local area.

Chris, no worries on someone disagreeing with my point of view or bringing up some issues that have disappointed them. This is what makes life unique. We all have different reasons and views on what we are passionate about, in thinking and playing.

I am going to take this opportunity to educate and share with those who care an introduction to BASE jumping. BASE is an acronym for the objects one jumps, all of which are fixed: B- building, A-antenna, S- span, E- earth. Again, I repeat fixed objects. BASE jumping can be extremely dangerous for the untrained, but like anything else, you can play the game with a huge amount of safety. Once again, it is your choice on how hard you wish to push the boundary, like all sports. The number one danger in BASE jumping is hitting the object from which you jumped. Your parachute comes out with a 180 degree spin, causing you to strike the fixed object, which needs no explanation, often having a bad outcome. For those interested in looking into the number one cause of death in BASE jumping, you can check the BASE fatality list (can be found by a google search) and you will learn that this is the number one cause of death. What the public doesn’t fully understand is the amount of training and skill required to perform this activity. It just looks like a bunch of crazed dogs hucking themselves off of object with no regard for their personal safety. We all know paragliding can be viewed similarly by those unfamiliar with the amount of training involved to perform the activity safely. Contrary to popular belief, BASE jumping is not illegal, trespassing is. Here in America, many times we break that rule, so that we can jump. Do I like that part, not really, but do I do it anyway, obviously. Am I accountable, yes. Would I prefer to pay a fee to have legal access to these great objects in the US, I would and this is something that the BASE community is diligently working on. It is funny that because I am a BASE jumper, many seem to assume that means I disagree with rules or believe they should not exist. If one read any of my posts closely, it is quite evident that is far from the truth. It is funny to me that some of the largest corporations sponsor BASE jumpers when they know that we are trespassing and “breaking the rules”, seems paradoxical. Will I continue to BASE jump, yes. Would I continue to paraglide in America if it were banned, yes.

Is jumping out of a paraglider BASE jumping? The answer is no. It is jumping with a parachute. Is there danger in this? Sure, just like running off the hill with a paraglider. Actually, participating in both activities, I feel more at danger with the x-factor in paragliding, so many unknown variables, than jumping from a paraglider with my parachute. When jumping from a paraglider, the risk of striking the object from which you jumped is taken out of the equation. There is nothing to hit…I know what you are thinking, you can hit the ground, ha-ha. It seems to be a large grey area combining jumping from tandem paragliders. Many say “no worries”, some say “bad idea”, others say “not allowed here” and others say “keep it quiet and mellow”, and then there are those that just talk about it behind your back.

Ah, now the episode in San Francisco. Allow me to clarify the story first hand. We were on a photo shoot for a paragliding company, touring around the western states with quick stops in many places. The objective was to capture photos of flying and jumping. We arrived at this site for a one day visit to fly and take photos. The agenda was to fly off the mountain a jumper flying tandem with a solo glider below. The idea was to capture a picture of a jumper flying his body simultaneously with a paraglider in flight. I chose to exit the glider earlier, to allow myself plenty of altitude for safety. This caused me to land in a marshy area, opposite the landing area, which is the beach for this particular site. As I walked through the marsh, ankle deep in mud, a rescue truck arrived. They ask me if I am a pilot, my response being “yes”, handing them my license. They proceed to ask if I know where the main landing area is, I respond, “yes”. They say, “ok, we just wanted to make sure you were fine, because we heard a pilot went down in the marsh, see you later”. So, on we went to our next location for our photo shoot. A few days later, I heard from a friend here in SB who asked me if I was ok. He heard a BASE jumper was stuck in the mud up to his neck and was wondering if it was me. I have to admit, I laughed pretty hard based on the rumor. Walked through mud, yes, stuck up to my neck, no. BASE jumping, no. Jumping from a paraglider with a parachute, yes.

In regards to assuming that I am selfish and wish for no rules, that couldn’t be further from the truth. Because I BASE jump and “trespass” does not directly translate into what I believe about rules and regulations. I will be the first to admit that I will chase my passions, probably upsetting some on the path and seeming selfish. But I guess we are all guilty of that at times, which is not meant as a justification. Not everybody agrees with paragliding as a beautiful sport, to some it is an annoyance (Hope Ranch residents) the list is tremendous and we can all think of examples of this in life. What some people will call antics, others will call skill.

The main purpose in writing is to encourage all dialogue, even when that means disagreements in views. It is all good to agree to disagree. And I certainly hope you don’t take too much stock in my proposals, as that isn’t even what they are. My words are simply to welcome conversation and thought amongst our group by looking at the pros and the cons, and sometimes being devil’s advocate to inspire thinking outside of the box.

Gary

Hey Gary I heard about you and Matt Gerdes' little adventure up North and it did seem to quiet down quickly, but it did have some people pretty steamed there for some time.

You write in this last installment that you want a dialogue about your proposals. The only proposals I deciphered out of all your writing were the Draconian proposals that none of us want, ie the person sitting on launch etc. That is what I wanted to make clear in my earlier post. Achieving this is through self governance, and yes that means if somebody is "para-bullying" we should self govern them as well, it doesn't come from personal pilot responsibility, but from a pilot-community responsibility. I mean look at your own behavior! You are willing to break the law to BASE jump. Now it is cool that you're a totally great BASE jumper, and your personal pilot responsibility for your own safety is probably up there with the best BASE jumpers in the world, but responsibility also comes with following the rules. The FAA says the pilot in command should be aware of all aspects of his anticipated flying environment. Now does that mean that things may change that are out of our control, "funky air", weather, etc., yes, but things in this pilots control such as having a radio, or whether or not to buzz the takeoff area. Which as I understand, were the two issues that were in question with our recent Canadian friend. And the following day his buzzing of the takeoff which resulted in a bush landing. These were talked about, and related on the forum as a pilot community should do.

A few years ago a young Canadian pilot was flying here and doing some crazy stuff like flying under the power lines, circling in sink deep in the canyons, and other not so smart moves. We got together and told him to stop flying like that or he wasn't welcome. It was amazing at how this changed his whole perspective. He took a couple of lessons, started flying with a radio, and actually became fun to fly with. Point being it is important to reinforce common practice regarding rules, regulations, and flying courtesy.

I'm not saying you don't do this Gary, but why are you taking such a stand against local pilots that were trying to care for a visiting pilot?

We all understand pack mentality, and personal responsibility, and risk/benefit analysis, so all your base jumping, and psychology references seem to be more of a diversion from the topic than just coming out and saying what it is that bothered you. Because then, and only then can we have the discussion on personal responsibility versus pilot-community responsibility.

And finally yes I have broken and/or bent some rules, was it the best thing to do, probably not, and once it cost me a serious injury and recovery. But it did get me plugged into the system. I reported what I did immediately and took full responsibility for all my errors, I posted them, and warned, and continue to warn other people not to make them. I hope this has saved at least one broken back. I was accountable. Lets hope that all of us can be accountable when we break, or don't enforce the rules and something untoward happens.

Andy

Hey Andy, thanks for posting your point of view. I will not address Matt Gerdes’ involvement, if you want to hear his side of the story, I am sure he would be willing to share it. It is always best to contact the source rather than use second hand information.

In bringing it back to the original topic of rules and regulations, the main goal writing my thoughts was to open up a space where we could openly discuss all potential constructive options for our flying site. This being said, the attempt was to illustrate all of the options, some good, some bad, some fitting, some extreme. Would some agree with the Draconian proposals, some may, look at Torrey Pines for instance. I try not to make assumptions with what others may feel comfortable with. If we are to effectively examine our current flying rules and regulations, we need to exhaust all of the options and look at everything, from “anarchy” to “Draconian” styles. I agree that it comes down to pilot-community responsibility, however, in this pilot-community exists individuals. It is the choices and accountability of these individuals that create the collective, thereby making it as important to be personally responsible. This was witnessed by your story regarding the Canadian pilot a few years ago. This shows that by talking face to face, one can often cause great impact and influence, with the right person, someone willing to listen and to learn. This sometimes takes time and patience.

I am not taking a stand against the local pilots. I respect many of them and equally respect our area but once again am trying to add insight into the illusion of control and practicing what we preach, in words, action and flying. Taking on this leadership role is a big task and shouldn’t be taken lightly. When there is concern, it is one thing to just talk about it (complain) and do little, but it is another to think about the psychology behind it to understand motivation and how to best be proactive. Despite our best intentions, the grey area exists. Does philosophy dictate rules or do rules dictate philosophy? This here is the crux.
To answer your question Andy, the one thing in life that has always bothered me is gossip; he-said, she-said, behind the back talking. This never solves anything. What I respect most is open communication directly to the source. You all know that I am not shy to share my voice. There is nothing passive-aggressive about my words and there is no need to read into them or assume otherwise. That is why I post what I do, to explicitly share my voice.

This sums it up, “In the end, enjoying life experiences is the only rational thing to do. You’re sitting on a planet spinning around in the middle of absolutely nowhere. Go ahead, take a look at reality. You’re floating in empty space in a universe that goes on forever. If you have to be here, at least be happy and enjoy the experience. You are going to die anyway. Things are going to happen anyway. Why shouldn’t you be happy? You gain nothing by being bothered by life’s events. It doesn’t change the world, you just suffer. There is always going to be something that can bother you, if you let it” (Singer, M. 2007. p. 143-144). So let’s not take ourselves too seriously. Nothing is permanent.

Gary

How nice it must be for Gary to be able to roll into a town, play a little Russian roulette with the hard earned freedoms of the local community, and leave without suffering the consequences left by his actions.

A lot of people up in Northern California were anxious to see what kind of statement Gary would make about the incident. Some were hoping he would show a little humility and admit his role. After all, most of us can certainly understand, and have a little compassion for someone that is adult enough to take responsibility for their actions. The majority, however, expected to see exactly what Gary dished out; a diatribe of dribble, claiming the jump wasn’t illegal, down-playing the event and distorting the facts to give the impression his role was minimal and unobtrusive. Then he conveniently leaves out the problems he and his buddy left behind for the community to clean up. It’s a very nice shell game he’s playing, but a lot of us know the real story. He may not have owned up to his role in it, but at least he’s consistent. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone talk so much, yet say so very little…

I have to ask. Since I’m seeing a lot of posts by Gary on your forum, should others and myself assume Gary is a representative of the Santa Barbara flying community?

Just because my information is second hand doesn’t mean it isn’t accurate, I assure you it is. If any of you are curious about the details, feel free to contact the SFBAPA club up North to verify the details.

Andre

... OK Chris G. I second your motion ... and after reading the above ... I now suggest you exercise your authority as forum moderator.

As one of the main participants in the discussion, I would prefer that this topic stays open because good things can come from this.

Gary

Andre L wrote:

A lot of people up in Northern California were anxious to see what kind of statement Gary would make about the incident.

Andre

Since Gary has given his side of the story it would be enlightening to hear what the other side of the story is. What are the first hand accounts (even told second hand)? What was the actual fallout from the event?

As long as the discussion doesn't become a personal attack I think it should play out.

DD

I am glad that you posted DD. I appreciate all of the phone calls and emails. As helpful as they have been, part of me cant help but wish that they were posted or heard for all to see. On a micro-scale, this illustrates the problem that few will speak their mind in public, I would guess that is due to the concern of being misunderstood through the written word or the fear to cause more debate or even thinking that it will do no good and change will never happen.

With this being said, I would like to highlight what has happened over the last week. As I was meandering through the forum, I stumbled upon the concern of the non-local pilot flying recklessly, a pilot who I do not know, his story I also don’t know. The only part of the story I am familiar with is the one given by the local pilots. Only their side, one point of view. Whether right or wrong, one point of view is not the full story and can be skewed. The written word has sometimes more impact than we think. This is why I played devil’s advocate. Again with no intention to attack anyone or take the side of the non-local pilot. If you neutrally read the posts, leaving the personalities and the pilots names out of the picture, see if you feel the same way.

Things quickly seemed to spiral out of control when questioning somebody’s words written on the forum. I was attempting to say be careful with your words, because new pilots can take stock in what it is written too. If we are making statements and posting about other’s in a public domain, it is my hope that we hold ourselves to the same standard. I am sorry if I offended anyone or hurt feelings.

This then led to the next topic of rules and regulations. Again, being devil’s advocate, I threw out many ideas ranging from what some perceived as “anarchy” and others perceived as “Draconian”. If we don’t look at the spectrum of ideas, how are we to really understand all of the options? Believe it or not, I was trying to write as neutrally as possible and it is clear how many different views of what I have written exist. This helps prove the idea of how powerful our written word can be and how quickly it can be taken out of context.

By opening the topic of “brainstorming rules and regs”, it was my hope to allow a space to discuss the vast range of options. This didn’t seem to happen, with the exception of the good brochure idea and the overall consensus that it comes down to pilot responsibility. I was hoping that there would be more voices about flying in our local area on our local forum. The number of views show how many people are following the threads, but the responses show otherwise and with little involvement, change will be hard to come by.

Gary

chris et al...
wow... it must be raining for i've never seen this much chatter on this forum....

it seems to me that there are already some "hard" rules in effect at sites including the p4 status at wilcox, landing rules at bates, airspace rules at more mesa, round house rules at the skyport/eliminator. These rules are in place generally not for pilot safety, but for a variety of political or legal reasons to keep the sites open and flyable.

of course there are several handfuls of faa regulations as well for safety and ushgpa guidlines for right of way and safety as well

where the grey area arrives is in what manner of style and percieved safety the pilot will exhibit thier skill or lack there of...Some places do not allow manuevers such as tumbles and the like. perhaps pilots have the skill to perform these, but the spinning and tumbling may appear to an onlooker as safe or dangerous, thus creating the appeaance to some that our sport may be unsafe. Particularly in california where people love lawsuits and fear their wrath we must keep this in consideration even though we may be in complete control of the situation.

i believe that we all agree that we would not like to loose any more sites wheteher it be to the actions of a visiting pilot or a local one. I believe for the most part that our local pilots do an excellent job as ambassadors or our sport and visiting pilots tend to understand the preservation meausures needed to keep sites open. That said, there are certainly times when a pilot is doing something unsafe or appears unsafe that need to be mentioned to that person. Typically most people will take constructive critisim as that, constructive advise. There are occassions where people see the advise as rtying to "control" their flying and may just tell you to get lost but you just do what you can...

Chris... i'd love to see you list for each site... perhaps they should be posted on some site if people come to agreement (perhaps this one during the rainy strtetch)... perhaps should include some sort of "mission" statement to generalize why and how we fly as well... it is time to take a proactive approach to issues we face versus the reactive strategy we have taken in the past (real change) if we are to successfully preserve our flying sites in the near future...

glenny

I have beeen asked by your forum moderator to discontinue any further remarks relating to this thread, and I absolutely understand where he is coming from and have to agree. If you need to know details of the event I referred to, you can follow my reference from my previous post.

My apologies to this forum and the community of Santa Barbara. I admit, I allowed my emotions to get the better of me, and I was certainly waving the justice flag a little too strong. I hope I can make it up to you in the future with some positive contributions to this forum.

Andre